INTERVIEWER: Why did you join the Marines?
A. SWOFFORD: I was kind of seduced by the Marine Corps at an early age. There had been some family history of fighting-my grandfather in World War II, my father in Vietnam-and actually, when I was like, 13, the Beirut Marine barracks was bombed and I was kind of affected by that. And I just realized that the Marine Corps offered me kind of a narrative, an entry into manhood that was kind of particular. And I thought in some ways safe, because once I got there, there were very few decisions I would have to make day-to-day, because they would be made for me. And so there was some-the possibility of safety within the structure of the Marine Corps.
INTERVIEWER: Did you ever think you would see action or combat when you joined?
A. SWOFFORD: I thought that I might, but I wasn't bloodthirsty, I was more interested in joining some kind of elite club and running around countries and having kind of a wild time, which is, , what they sold me.
INTERVIEWER: But if they sell you on that-how do they mentally prepare you for combat?
A. SWOFFORD: Early on at boot camp, they begin to break down the individual, and, and bring you into the clan, essentially. That happens through training, through a certain kind of mental brutality and abuse.
INTERVIEWER: For example?
A. SWOFFORD: Calling you names, insulting your mother, telling you you're worthless, telling you you're nothing without the Marine Corps, sometimes, , physical violence. For instance, a few days into boot camp I got my head shoved through a chalkboard because I was supposed to draw something on the board, and I couldn't draw worth a damn, and so this drill instructor was flipping out, grabbed the back of my head, and introduced me to this chalkboard. The threat's always there of some kind of physical violence. Because you're being trained by these men who are big, strong guys who are pretty fucking mean.
INTERVIEWER: What kind of state of mind is the expected result of that mental training?
A. SWOFFORD: Kind of a bloodthirst, a desire, for combat, and also an ability to move through combat without being stricken in the midst of it, and, and totally debilitated-cracking up.
INTERVIEWER: Stricken by fear?
A. SWOFFORD: Fear, anxiety, and-yeah, , the desire to live.
INTERVIEWER: The desire to live has to be suppressed?
A. SWOFFORD: In some way, or forgotten. I mean, a sane person who really wanted to live wouldn't necessarily first join the Marine Corps, and then the infantry, and then be sitting on the front line of a combat zone, because chances are that you're not going to live when you're in that position. They need to convince you that this mission and these goals are more important than your life.
INTERVIEWER: Do they also mentally prepare you to kill?
A. SWOFFORD: It's all kind of part of the same swirl, ? There's no like, "This is how you'll learn to kill and be okay with this." Like, you're a Marine and you kill: and so you're okay with it. Because that's how you're trained, and that's what you must do.
INTERVIEWER: Just before the Gulf War, when you heard that war is about to start, and that you may have to ship out there, what was the first thing that you did?
A. SWOFFORD: The first thing we did was go out and get fresh high and tight haircuts, which the name "Jarhead" comes from-the kind of absurd haircuts where there's nothing-no hair at all on the head except a little at the top.
INTERVIEWER: Is there a special reason for these haircuts?
A. SWOFFORD: It's just tradition. One of the more extreme traditions. It's the most extreme haircut, that kind of says, "Marine". and "Jarhead." So we sent some guys out to the town near our base and they bought a lot of beer, and some war films, and we went back to our rec room in our barracks, and started drinking and watching these movies, and it was this chance for us see, , what was forthcoming, in a way, and we were excited by it, and thrilled, and it was kind of a celebration of our, of our, well of our destiny in a way, and of the possibility of us as Marines.
INTERVIEWER: Which films did you watch?
A. SWOFFORD: we watched-mostly we liked the Platoon, Full Metal Jacket, Apocalypse Now kind of the-, the Vietnam films, because they were closer, , in proximity to us, and also they were gory. , they were the ones with the most vivid, violent images.
INTERVIEWER: Aren't most war movies anti-war movies?
A. SWOFFORD: I think they're supposed to appall the average viewer, and generally they do-but for the young man who's about to go fight, it's like , a woman's naked body, it's, it's sexy, it's war, it's the thing that you might soon enter, and it's sexy, and exciting, and thrilling. And not anti-war at all. Pro-war, even. Because it's-it's combat, it's war, it's what you're trained for, it's what you'll be doing. How you might be dying
INTERVIEWER: Why was the Vietnam so close to you?
A. SWOFFORD: In a way the Vietnam War is very romanticized, there's a somber quality to how it's considered, because of the many deaths, and, the feeling that it was some kind of a worthless war. But it was a rock 'n' roll war, and there were villes outside of every encampment with whores and whiskey, and you were smoking dope, there was heroin, and it was crazy. It was a different kind of lifestyle.
INTERVIEWER: How was the Gulf War lifestyle compared to that?
SWOFFORD: Our war was very clean, , we were in Saudi Arabia, we couldn't get alcohol, couldn't get women-it was almost as though we were being punished fo all of the fun that the guys had in Vietnam. Not that the war was fun, but the extra-battlefield stuff, the whores, the drinking, the music. There was no music that like, came out of the Gulf War. , we were listening to Jimi Hendrix and the Rolling Stones. [LAUGHS] And Led Zeppelin.
INTERVIEWER: Where did you arrive first when you went there?
A. SWOFFORD: We landed in Riyadh at, flew over on a United Airlines flight, and had our weapons with us on the plane. We spent a little bit of time a nearby port before getting out into the middle of the desert, where we spent, , the remainder of our deployment.
INTERVIEWER: How long did you have to wait there until the war started?
A. SWOFFORD: Well-six months. Yeah. From August to , January, when the bombing started.
INTERVIEWER: What did you do all the time there?
A. SWOFFORD: Mainly we trained, we were out in the desert, and we went on mock missions, we fired out rifles, we spent a great deal of time training for biological and chemical warfare. That being almost assured to us, , that we would-that the artillery rounds coming in, the Scud missiles coming in, would be chemical or biological.
INTERVIEWER: Was that very frightening?
A. SWOFFORD: Yeah. No matter how many times I got my gas mask on in 8 seconds and cleared it-when those bombs would really be landing with gas like, I didn't know how I'd perform, I didn't know if my gas mask would work. It was totally unknown. Absolutely terrifying.
INTERVIEWER: Doesn't the Marine Corps provide you with sufficient material?
A. SWOFFORD: Well there's always controversy over whether the masks are good or not-and we didn't have a whole lot of confidence in our gear, I mean because, other than our rifles, , which always worked, generally, the gas masks, you're looking at this thing, maybe some of the plastic is kind of cracked or worn, and maybe the elastic straps are kind of rigged because someone's been stretching it, or , it's been used in training for how long? Ten years, maybe. And then you're supposed to throw some new filters in it, and it's supposed to be like, great, when the, when the Sarin gas lands. And that's, , not very-there's not a lot of confidence really, in those things then.
INTERVIEWER: When you're there for six months, do you follow what's going on in Washington and at the U.N.?
A. SWOFFORD: No, we received very little news. Occasionally a New York Times, occasionally an Arab Times. Mostly Stars and Strips, but there's no real reporting. Sometimes we could catch a BBC Broadcast on short-wave radio. But we didn't care. Of course what we hoped for was to be sent home and not to have to fight.
INTERVIEWER: You didn't hope for the war to begin-to finally begin to fight?
A. SWOFFORD: No, no, we waited for, , something to happen diplomatically and for the thing to end.
INTERVIEWER: Do front line soldiers purposefully not get news about all these things?
A. SWOFFORD: Tey don't want the front line guys to be exposed to the machinations of diplomacy, the back and forth, the game, essentially. Cause it's a game, it's a huge game with a lot at stake, and the front line guys, the only game they need to be aware of is like, how their rifle works, and how they're going to kill that guy when the call comes down to go.
INTERVIEWER: But what do you actually think when you're there?
A. SWOFFORD: Well , at first we were pretty convinced that we were initially deployed in order to protect Saudi Arabia from the coming invasion so, in the initial weeks the light infantry guys were like speed bps out there in the middle of the desert, in case Hussein came down with tanks and heavy armor. But we were there because we were told to be there, and what it meant-what it would mean to fight and die there, we weren't sure about that.
INTERVIEWER: Do you think about why, if I die here, why did I die?
A. SWOFFORD: Oh yeah, , we've discussed it there was Collier, who's in the book, , was, was one of the most -he was a great Marine, and a great leader, but he was also very-he was a dissenter as well, and spoke, , the dissenter's opinions, like, ", we're just here fighting for these guys who are gonna make money off us, and we're going to die for nothing." Like, nobody cares we're going to die, it doesn't really matter, we're grunts in the Marine Corps, we've got targets on our chests, and that's a lonely feeling.
INTERVIEWER: You were a sniper, trained to kill very precisely.
A. SWOFFORD: Yeah. One shot, one kill, is the saying.
INTERVIEWER: Isn't it a very personal way of fighting?
A. SWOFFORD: I think it's personal. THeidea that you'll be shooting at that officer who you see directing troops, and you'll just hit him. And that by hitting him, you'll cause disarray, confusion, and great amounts of fear in the enemy, it's a very private exchange, theoretically.
INTERVIEWER: Did you ever have to shoot somebody?
A. SWOFFORD: No. I had had some people in my sights, and wasn't allowed to take the shots. We were invading Al Jabbara airfield in Southern Kuwait, and Johnny-Johnny Rotten as his name was [CHUCKLES] because he never took showers- Johnny Rotten and I were in a position, and he had the 50 cal, and I had the 7.62, and there were some officers in a air control tower at the airfield. And I wanted to take some shots. I had 'em in my sites, and the captain whose company we were attached to called us off.
INTERVIEWER: Is there is a point when you just want to shoot somebody, because that's what you're trained for?
A. SWOFFORD: Yeah, once the war started, I think we all felt like we should do some fighting here-also , seeing the devastation of the six weeks of bombing, as we hiked up north- , bodies dead in jeeps, in personnel carriers, half-buried by the sand, I felt like, okay, this is war now, and it was terrifying, but it was almost as though taking those shots may have relieved, in a weird way, some of that pressure right then, but it would have like, back-ended the pressure, essentially, cause then I'd have that on me today, and I'm thankful that I don't.
INTERVIEWER: Did you cross into enemy territory though?
A. SWOFFORD: Yes, south of Kuwait City we crossed the Saudi-Kuwaiti border, and we breached the minefield and the obstacle belt.
INTERVIEWER: What is an obstacle belt?
A. SWOFFORD: It's both mines and barbed wire, or other kind of structures so that they're attempting to control your movement and ideally they're controlling your movement into areas where there are mines. We breached that on the first morning of the battle.
INTERVIEWER: What day, I mean what actual date was it?
A. SWOFFORD: February 24th, 1991.
INTERVIEWER: For the general public all over the world the Gulf War was this ultra-clean war, where you only had these images of these approaching cruise missile cameras, and then all of the sudden the picture fades, and then it's off. What actually happens after this picture goes off?
A. SWOFFORD: What happens right afterward is, , stuff blows up and people die, and then there are corpses there in the sand, and , bodies, and families are missing husbands and brothers and sons. That's, , what happens, and the clean precision of the video from the bomber has nothing to do with the actuality of that moment of detonation and the aftereffects. It's clean, it's precise-but war is not clean or precise. War is messy and profane, and obscene.
INTERVIEWER: And when you cross these fields, what did you encounter?
A. SWOFFORD: Fresh carnage, 41 days of bombing and it was right in front of us, in these artillery positions, in light infantry positions along, , unimproved roads where tanks had been hit, or personnel carriers.
INTERVIEWER: How vast was the devastations in these bombing areas?
A. SWOFFORD: Well it was quite vast, , there were-, dozens, hundreds of vehicles that had been hit. All of the positions that we passed, which-there were quite a few, because the initial deployment of the Iraqi forces was rather high right there at the border, and they were in these defensive positions, and , after six weeks of bombing they were turning back the other way.
INTERVIEWER: Did you ever encounter the enemy fighting?
A. SWOFFORD: The was before the 24th my unit moved to the berm which separated the two countries-Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. We moved near the berm, and our communication tower had set up in kind of a high area, and because of that we were spotted, and received incoming artillery. We heard this sound of a descending round, and someone started yelling "Incoming," and the rounds began to explode.
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